Ideal States

Kim du Toit
July 28, 2006
8:30 AM CDT

Okay, I’ve brushed on this often enough in Comments to various posts, and I think the topic deserves its own thread.

If we were going to move, where would we move to?

Let me say at the outset that we actually love where we are, in Plano TX because of the following reasons:

1.) No homeschooling issues (by “issues”, I’m referring of course to state restrictions: TX is one of the most “homeschool-friendly” states).

2.) No state income tax. Sure, they make it up in high property taxes, but that’s okay.

3.) Low cost of living. Californians who visit us are astounded at the low housing prices. In Plano, $240,000 buys you a 4BR 3B 2CG and a pool (that’s what we have). $600,000 buys you a new 8BR 6B 4CG. Apartments are a little on the expensive side ($750 for a 2BR 1B), but that’s because we have a

4.) High standard of living. Excellent restaurants, fine shopping, no traffic, no crime.

5.) Conservative politics. We live in one of the most conservative voting districts in the United States, and yet all races are represented here, without any “racial tension”.

6. No stupid gun laws. And when we pass the Castle Doctrine during the next legislative session, it will be even better.

Understand that if we move, that’s the shortlist of desirable attributes.

So Kim, you ask, if all that’s so wonderful, why would you consider moving?

Here they are.

1.) The heat. It absolutely kills me, and I’m from Africa.

2.) No scenery. If you want to see into the next county, you have to drive on a freeway overpass. It’s flat, ugly and boring.

3.) Middle of nowhere. To get anywhere else, you have to drive through miles and miles of nothing for hours and hours, or fly.

4. No seasons. It’s summer, or not-quite summer. I miss the fall, I miss the snow. Terribly.

Here are the problems we face, in considering a move. Places like Idaho or Montana would suit me okay, but, sooner or later, Tech Support would load up the Suburban with ammo and go and shoot up a town, just out of boredom. She jokes that she refuses to live anywhere that doesn’t have a Nordstrom’s within an easy half-hour’s drive—we have three around Plano which qualify—but it’s not Nordstrom’s per se she’s talking about: it’s the other kinds of shopping which cluster around Nordstrom’s because of the area’s demographics. We want to see more Sur La Table outlets than Rent-A-Centers, if you get my drift, and more Greek restaurants (there are five within 5 miles of our house) than Taco Bells (only three of those).

In short, we’re kinda cultural snobs (and not really social ones).

We’re not interested in Serious Culture—the Joffrey Ballet is not on our list of Things To Do On A Saturday Night—but we like classy joints, and don’t want to have to drive a hundred miles to find one.

What distresses me, in looking around at places all over the country, is the Blanding of America. Instead of a Mom ‘n Pop restaurant, there are six chain restaurants instead; instead of a couple of interesting bookstores, it’s all Barnes & Noble/Borders. Wherever I look, I could be just about anywhere in the United States.

That’s why I like smaller towns, as a whole, but unfortunately, just as smaller towns can’t support a Gap store, they also can’t support a Nordstrom’s. Or a decent-sized airport, which is another requirement because of Tech Support’s work.

And then you have Wal-Mart, which has stomped underfoot most of Retail America.

But the real problem is that when I do find a place that’s just a little more interesting than average, it’s politically part of the Blue Archipelago. Austin TX is an excellent example of this, as are Raleigh NC, Augusta ME, Asheville NC and Missoula MT.

So let me do the easy part, and list first the states which I will categorically never live in:

New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois, Hawaii and California.

Next comes the states which are politically okay, but they fail the “heat” test (I can stay in Texas for that):

Oklahoma, Arkansas, Nevada, Louisiana, Arizona (except maybe around the northern part), New Mexico (ditto), Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia.

States with “not enough winter” are:

Missouri, Tennessee (except maybe the extreme eastern part), South Carolina, North Carolina.

“Too boring” are:

Kansas, Nebraska, both Dakotas (except maybe S. Dakota around Mt. Rushmore), Iowa. We have “flat” right here in Texas.

“A little too liberal” are

Oregon, Wisconsin, Michigan (that gun registration thing), Washington, Minnesota, Delaware, Maine (I know that the liberalism is confined to the coasts and large cities/college towns in these states—but unfortunately, these states are dominated by said areas, politically).

“Too remote” and “not enough happening” are:

Utah, Alaska, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Vermont, W. Virginia.

“Prone to natural disasters” delivers a double whammy to several states: earthquakes (CA, western WA, western OR); tornadoes (KS, OK, eastern CO); hurricanes (FL, coastal GA, -SC, -NC).

What’s left?

Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Colorado, Virginia.

Actual towns/locations which come close, except for some unfortunate circumstances: Ojai CA (it’s in CA, duh); Carson City NV (remote); Petoskey MI (remote); Jackson Hole WY (except for the “Hollywood” influence); Flagstaff AZ (remote), and Bozeman, MT (remote), Fort Collins CO (little too pink).

Some which come agonizingly close: Camden ME, Portsmouth NH; Traverse City MI; Hannibal MO.

The last-named has a definite inside track for us. Both Tech Support and I can see ourselves living our golden years in a little house close to town/van down by the river, and reading Mark Twain to each other when we’re not shooting our .22 rifles off the back porch or spoiling our grandchildren.

We don’t ask for much…

Comments

Bottom of Comments | Comment Form | Original Post

Portsmouth, NH, is a beautiful city. We’re looking to move up just north of there when we’re finally able to escape Marxachusetts.

Bruce in NH | 7/28/2006 08:35 AM CDT | #67593


East Tennessee.  It is hot here about one month out of the year (now, actually) but otherwise bearable.  Plenty of mountains, waterways, and scenery.

No homeschooling issues I know of.

No state income tax (sales tax is high at 8.25%)

Real low cost of living, except in some places out west and middle.  Stick with the east.  My current home is 4br, 3b, big garage on a .6 acres.  Cost was about $210K (no pool - toddler in the house)

Decent restaurants around here. Shopping is decent.  Traffic is minimal in East except when there’s construction on I40.  No crime?  Well, we have low crime.

East TN is quite conservative.  Even our democrats are conservative.

Gun laws:  TN has shall issue CCW. And shall issue Class 3/NFA approval.

SayUncle | 7/28/2006 09:02 AM CDT | #67597


I was going to recommend my neck of the woods, but unfortunately, it’s “Too remote” and “not enough happening”.  Oh well, I gotta go anyway.  I have to get my CCW renewed next month, they’re only good for 5 years here.  Actually, if I didn’t want to carry concealled and just strap it on my side, that’s legal without a permit here. My kids need new clothes, maybe we’ll go to the Gap or Macy’s tomorrow.  While we are out, we’ll probably eat at one of dozens of Mom & Pop hometown resturants in the area.  After, we eat, we may stop by one of the local bookstores, maybe one of the used bookstores, I’m feeling cheap. Hope I don’t have any problems going to sleep tonight, we live near the airport and sometimes the jets are noisy.  Well, I think I’ll step out in my own backyard and do some shooting.  Good thing there’s not much happening.

RangerWT | 7/28/2006 09:03 AM CDT | #67598


By ‘shall issue Class 3/NFA approval.’, i mean the local sheriff is required by law to approve nfa transfers (machine guns, suppressors, etc.) in 15 business days if the applicant is not a prohibited person.

SayUncle | 7/28/2006 09:03 AM CDT | #67599


East Tennessee also has Chattanooga, a wonderful city, and only a short drive from Atlanta, GA.

rajl | 7/28/2006 09:04 AM CDT | #67600


The big problem with towns like Petosky and Traverse City is that from Memorial Day to Labor Day, they become overrun with “fudgies” and “cone suckers” (affectinate nicknames for tourists).  Almost to the point where getting anywhere in the city is an exercise in patience.  Both areas tend to be very strong in their Union mentalities too.  Manistee (about 60 miles south of Traverse City) won’t even consider allowing new businesses to come in unless their workforce is unionized.  Of the two, I’d go with Traverse City (a little bigger, and a bit more modern).

Don’t get me wrong, they are gorgeous cities to live in.  Views of Lake Michigan that are stunning.  On the lake, the summer temperatures tend to be even more mild and the winter temperatures as well (not counting the lake effect snow).

Of course, all of it is moot until we can get gun registration repealed.  I think Granholm and Stabbenow are the bigger targets for the time being though.

Jon | 7/28/2006 09:04 AM CDT | #67601


I would selfishly recommend northern or inland CT, about 20-30 minutes away from the coast.  If you own a certain # of acres you can do whatever you want on your property, including LEGALLY firing various cannons and rocket launchers.  A friend from texas recently moved here, there were some forms, and certain name brand guns were banned, but if you replace those parts with “unbranded” parts it’s fine. 

There are also some mountain shooting ranges.  Find a conservative town and you may be able to do some good to our political system up here. 

Only the liberal coastal towns are bad, the rest is valley/farmland.  Tons of outlets and malls within driving reach to keep the misses happy. 

Concealed carry permit was a mere 35$ and a 2 hour lecture by random crazed NRA guy who lived near one of those said mountain shooting ranges.

snackdrag | 7/28/2006 09:09 AM CDT | #67602


Oh, and in east tennessee there’s all kinds of cool kids here like me, les jones, tam and insty.

SayUncle | 7/28/2006 09:12 AM CDT | #67603


Great list!  Traverse City is a pretty place.  I graduated high school from the Interlochen Arts Academy, right next to TC.  Southern New Hampshire (Portsmouth, Durham, Manchester) is a great place to live.  As you know, Boston is nearby, but so are the lakes region and the White Mountains (where I live).  It’s not a bad drive to Montreal, either.  (It gets pretty effing hot and very humid up here, though.)

Oh well.  I sympathize.

AnnaD | 7/28/2006 09:13 AM CDT | #67604


We certainly have the winter here in Minnesota (although its supposed to be 100 degrees here today) Yeah - the politics tend to lean left but it really is starting to swing the other direction and friends in the know at the capital say that the castle doctrine will be coming to the floor of the house next year.  The lovely Mrs. and I both received our CCW permits this year (MN is a shall-issue state) and while the inner city crime in Minneapolis is rising because of the ultra-liberal Mayor and city council the surrounding burbs are chock-full of conservative gun owners.  Don’t count MN out completely, there is all the “civilization” you need near the Twin Cities or Rochester and the best part is that in a short hour or two drive you can be in the wilderness.

Noodles | 7/28/2006 09:18 AM CDT | #67605


“She jokes that she refuses to live anywhere that doesn’t have a Nordstrom’s within an easy half-hour’s drive”

Trust me, Kim, I feel your pain.... since my wife Em is about the same way. I tell her Em isn’t short for Emily, it’s short for Imelda… as a look at her shoe / purse selection would make clear. 8-) I’m going to sit down to my nice dish of boiled hay now....

SDN | 7/28/2006 09:21 AM CDT | #67606


Living in the extreme east Tennessee (even further east than SayUncle), we’re not too far away from some bigger cities such as Knoxville (where it sounds like SayUncle is near), but we’re also pretty conservative over all (signs for Harold Ford Jr. notwithstanding). We have a lot of local restaurants, in addition to the usual chains. In fact, Johnson City has more eateries than people, I think, and they’re all packed almost nightly! You might be disappointed, though, because I don’t think we have any Texas BBQ places here; it’s all Memphis- or North Carolina-style.

Gotta watch the traffic twice a year on Race Weekend, though. The area normally contains about 250K residents, but when there’s a race at Bristol, that nearly triples, and I-81 moves like molasses for a hundred miles on either side of the track.

Lots of lakes, though, and at least 2 indoor shooting ranges that I know of (but then I unfortunately don’t pay much attention to that at the moment, not enough $$ to enter that world). And a pretty decent availability of technology, too.

Red Five | 7/28/2006 09:24 AM CDT | #67607


Try Winchester, Virginia.  Solidly conservative, but with Washington about an hour’s drive away - and the Virginia suburbs of Washington even closer.  Anywhere on the I-66 corridor between Manassas and I-81 would do, but I think Winchester would suit the best.

Mike of the Duelling Pistols | 7/28/2006 09:25 AM CDT | #67608


Well, I’m as east as you can get in the lower half of the state.  Blount County, which is about 20 minutes from Knoxville.

SayUncle | 7/28/2006 09:26 AM CDT | #67609


Now, Kim...Raleigh isn’t blue.  It is true that our US Rep is a filthy gun-hating commie, but that’s because of Chapel Hill, which is about as blue as you can get. 

But I live up in North Raleigh.  The guy next door to me is a paratrooper who just got sent to Afghanistan.  The guy on the other side of him is a true gun nut:  has “M1A,” “762,” and “NRA” stickers on his SUV.  Old Glory hangs from at least half of the front porches on our street.  Lots of Bush and “W” stickers on cars.

We’d love to have you.

Thibodeaux | 7/28/2006 09:32 AM CDT | #67610


Colorado Springs!  Conservative heart of the state, not too hot summer, winters down here are actually on the mild side, gun friendly, mountains just west of town (where you can find all the winter you want).  Fort Collins is nice, college town/too hip for me, at least it ain’t Boulder…

Darrell | 7/28/2006 09:34 AM CDT | #67611


Actually the Carson City area is not as remote as it used to be. Reno is a short drive and there is plenty of shopping to be had there. It’s been a while since I lived there so I’m not up on the “culture scene” there, I know it wasn’t big about 20 years ago but that may have changed. All 4 seasons are fairly represented there and the area in general is quite beautiful. In my estimation, the biggest downfall is the horrifying cost of real estate as opposed to wages. Frankly, I don’t know how folks do it. However, the Reno/Carson City/Gardnerville/Minden/Lake Tahoe area would suit you and your bride quite well.

The Quiet Man | 7/28/2006 09:38 AM CDT | #67612


Though, New Hampshire is still a little too close to this friggin’ idiot.

The Boston Police Department and Mayor Menino are touting new ballistics technology called “micro stamping”. Guns with this technology would leave an imprint of the serial number on the bullet casings.

And from the “It takes one to know one” department:

It would be one more tool in our toolbox to help combat crime.

Bruce in NH | 7/28/2006 09:47 AM CDT | #67613


Kim,

You’ve expanded on what I’ve told people when they asked why I moved after 20 years living in my retirement paradise of choice, Colorado Springs (I note Darrell’s opinion above--and once agreed with him.)

Low housing cost was the deal-maker. I built a custom home on a huge lot with all the bells and whistles I dreamed about but couldn’t otherwise afford. Sold the house in Colorado which I’d bought new in 1985 and considerably upgraded. Colo. Springs had grown from 145K people to about half a million this year. The two lane I’d enjoyed at grown to four and was going to be expanded to six lanes starting this past spring. The open ranch land I’d been able to see antelope in on a daily basis had filled with hundreds of tract homes and the uber-conservatism of the fundamentalist religious right in Colorado Springs had grown oppressive.

Like you, I have a bit of difficulty with the heat--but I threw away my snow shovel when I moved and don’t miss it a bit.

I’ll nit-pick you a bit when you say there’s no traffic in Plano! I get the hives when I have to leave the tranquility of Whitesboro for an excursion to the big town.

For class joints for eating, try Mignon on Preston Rd and Nicola’s over by the N. Dallas Tollway and Legacy--great Italian. Both joints are upscale classy.

We ought to get together for a beer.

Fast Eddie | 7/28/2006 09:48 AM CDT | #67614


Great list.  I have considered some of those places myself and will look at the others.

I noticed that you didn’t mention any cities in virginia even though that was a possiblity.  I would suggest Richmond and Norfolk and possibly Roanoke for visits.

Another idea is to live in the panhandle of Idaho which has most of your requirements and is also a short drive to Spokane (I think that has one of the original Nordsroms) should fill the rest.  Missoula is also quite nice but I don’t think it meets the Nordstrom criteria.

Closet Libertarian | 7/28/2006 09:49 AM CDT | #67615


I’m with Kim on this. The heat and the flatness of TX are awful. I moved here from British Columbia—love the political climate and cost of living, but hate the weather/landscape. (By the way, in our suburb, $145,000 will get you a very nice 4BR/2.5B/2CG—no pool, though). We’re trying to push up north once I graduate, probably to WA state. It’s true that WA politics are dominated by Moscow on the Sound, but once you get a little north of it or east of the Cascades you’re back in conservative territory. Spokane is pretty nice, and has a modicum of culture.

BTW, Austin may be the Berkeley of Texas, but as soon as you get 30 seconds out of town and into the suburbs you are solidly in conservative territory.

Sarah | 7/28/2006 09:52 AM CDT | #67616


Well, if you like Eastern WA, but not Seattle’s politics, I’d recomend Post Falls, ID-it’s right across the state line from Spokane, about 30 minutes or so to downtown down I-90.

Idaho probably meets all of your criteria except the income tax, and I’m not sure how that’d work if you lived in ID but worked in WA.

Oh, and it can be a 100 degree difference between summer and winter.  And for amusement you can drive to C’oer d’lene and make fun of the skinheads.

Heartless Libertarian | 7/28/2006 09:53 AM CDT | #67617


I’m glad to see Indiana made the short list. It’s a pretty boring state in a lot of respects- which is just fine- but we’re short drives from so many nice things. And as I grow older i appreciate milder summers and cold winters. 

Be good to have you as a neighbor. THree homes in our neighborhood for sale right now, and you could sell your place and move here, and have money left over. Not one of the homes for sale is at the price level you state.

og | 7/28/2006 09:53 AM CDT | #67618


“Too boring” are:

Kansas,

If you end up in the west half of the state, you’re right.  Don’t give up on the Kansas City area.  There’s too many people there for me, but I love driving in the area, with the heavily treed rolling hills.  Plus the Flint Hills between KC and Wichita are beautiful.  Kansas has its pool-table attributes, but only if you ignore a great deal of the state.

I can’t speak for the politics of KC and suburbs, but you definitely want to avoid Lawrence, our “Moscow on the Kansas River”.  I almost got thrown out of a restaurant there when I asked for a non-smoking table.  They quit smugly told that all restaurant smoking had been banned, so I tol them they were a bunch of sh*t-heads.  Come to think of it now, my food tasted a little funny…

tkdkerry | 7/28/2006 10:02 AM CDT | #67619


Uh, that’s “quite smugly told me that...”

More cofee, please.

tkdkerry | 7/28/2006 10:03 AM CDT | #67620


Flagstaff AZ isn’t as remote as you make it sound, it does have good shopping and good restaurants.  The real reason to avoid Flagstaff is that it’s a college town, and is overrun by both commies and hippies.  The area is gorgeous and has actual seasons, but that doesn’t make up for being the most liberal city in AZ (by far).

Melody Byrne | 7/28/2006 10:03 AM CDT | #67621


I’m fond of Traverse City myself. Michigan in general has done better with its lakeshores than Ohio has. Michigan looked at the lakes and said “Tourism!” Ohio said “Industrial resource!”

That said, we generally like our bit of northeast Ohio (Fairview Park, part of the “West Side” of Greater Cleveland).

Upsides
Crime is low, and it’s quiet.

Schools are generally solid or better.

Close enough to Cleveland to take advantage of the culture without actually having to live in the place (which I’ve done, and don’t recommend--with the exception of Tremont, if you like that sort of thing): excellent library system, great art museum (and no admission charge for the permanent collection), great zoo, one of the best orchestras in the world, excellent metropolitan parks system in Cuyahoga and surrounding counties, plenty of good college, high school, and pro sports. Minutes from Lake Erie, if you like to sit on the beach and/or do yotty things, as Mr. Free Market would say. I like both, and walleye, salmon, and yellow perch are the PINNACLE, I say, the PINNACLE! of freshwater fish--and Lake Erie’s got plenty of all three. The Great Lakes are an asset at which you should not sneeze your nose.

We have four seasons, and I particularly like fall around here. Very pretty, plenty of harvest-type stuff to do.

If Blackwell wins, we’re likely to get a flat state income tax.

HB347 will improve CCW in Ohio. Both gubernatorial candidates have promised to sign it.

If you like being around big cities for some reason, Cleveland has 85% of the stuff New York offers, for half the cost of living.

Downsides
Property taxes all over the west side are high, man. Bedroom communities.

Land likewise is brutally expensive. Cross into Lorain County and look to pick up some former soybean acres, get ready to pay $25,000 an acre and up. It’s flat, too. The Midwest starts at the Cuyahoga River. The east side (by which I mean Lake and Geauga counties) are hillier and more picturesque. Parts of Geauga Couny look like the Shire or something. Go far enough south in Geauga and I think you can still get land around $10,000 an acre.

Still close enough to Cleveland that every time the “regionalism” rumblings start, we check our bug-out bags.

Ragweed? No thanks, got all we need.

No Castle Doctrine yet.

This is Dennis Kucinich’s Congressional district.

MiddleAgedKen | 7/28/2006 10:12 AM CDT | #67623


Central Texas would fulfill some of your requirements, but of course wouldn’t change the heat factor.  The Hill country outside of Austin gives some scenery to look at, and you can balance the Nordstom’s/airport requirements.  For example, Wimberley or San Marcos are within an hour of both the Austin and San Antonio airports, and about 45 minutes from the nearest Nordstrom’s.  San Marcos has a very large outlet mall with shopping for lots of stores cheap.  Both are far enough away from Austin to be out of the Blue zone.

New Hampshire is another good choice, although from what I hear the southern area is starting to get overrun with Massacusetts folks fleeing the high cost of living.  Like Californians, they bring with them the mindset that caused the problems they’re fleeing from, so I predict future problems along that line if the Free State folks don’t hurry up and take over first.

Roger Ritter | 7/28/2006 10:12 AM CDT | #67624


Forgot to add--I’m 45 next month, lived in Northeast Ohio all my life, and we’ve had a serious drought here exactly once--1988, when pretty much everyone had one too.

MiddleAgedKen | 7/28/2006 10:15 AM CDT | #67625


Noodles said:

“We certainly have the winter here in Minnesota (although its supposed to be 100 degrees here today).... “

You beat me to it.  Minnesota is very conservatice for a libtard state.  For the most part, we’ve stopped electing commies, but our electoral votes always go for the leftist presidential candidate.  Even when we elected dems to everything, they knew they had to hug the center to survive here.

Property taxes are growing.  Mine have doubled since 98.  Property values seem high, but not compared to what you listed.  My 4 bedroom, 2.75 bath, 2.5 car garage house goes for about $250k.  It seems high to me, because we bought it for $125k in 98.

I know you’re almost past the point where you’re worried about it, but homeschooling is pretty friendly here, too, according to what I’ve heard.  My son is currently public school, for a variety of reasons, but I do know a few homeschoolers, going back to when I was in school 10 years ago.

The gun laws are painless.  With a carry permit or a purchase permit, buying handgun takes 5 minutes.  I know this because I timed it.  If you ignore the postings on GFW businesses, and get caught, it’s a non-cumulative $25 fine that’s recorded as a petty misdemeanor.  Getting a carry permit takes a 1 day class, and about $200. 

So, in summary, move to Minnesota so I can buy you a drink. 

princewally | 7/28/2006 10:20 AM CDT | #67628


Also, I believe New Hampshire is the only state without a clause in its constution requiring taxpayer dollars to be allocated to public edjookayshun.

No income tax.
No sales tax.
No motor vehicle excise tax.
Legal open carry.
Shall issue, no-fingerprinting, CCW.
More affordable housing.
Significantly less $ spent per student, same SAT scores
Beer sold at gas stations.
No members of the Kennedy Klan in power.
Mountains, ocean, and everything in between.

Yeah...Massachusetts or New Hampshire? Tough call.

Bruce in NH | 7/28/2006 10:21 AM CDT | #67629


Heartless Libertarian said
“Oh, and it can be a 100 degree difference between summer and winter. “

That’s nothing.  We get that in January.

princewally | 7/28/2006 10:23 AM CDT | #67630


As a lifelong Pennsylvanian, I must say that PA deserves its place on your short list. I would stay WELL away from Philly, as it is the reason why PA turned up in the blue column.  Other than that, PA is solid red.  Pitttsburgh is a charming city with all of the cultural amenities you seek, but I would live outside the city or better yet, in one of the surrounding counties.  Harrisburg is, too, but a bit smaller than the Burgh.  Central and Western PA are the places to be; the cost of living in those areas is below average, but watch out for the property taxes. 

PA does have a state income tax, but it’s a flat 3%.  PA also has no sales tax on clothes and its sales tax is 6%.  PA is a shall issue state whose CCW permit costs only $25, requires no training, and is good for 5 years.  Deer hunting is almost a religion.

PA is tougher in homeschooling, but the PA Cyber Charter School is available to serve as a great resource for those things you just can’t do yourself, like bio and chem lab experiments.

The Dems in PA are more like the old school (pro-union, but anti-abortion and anti-gun control).

Specifically I recommend:

Altoona
Greensburg
Johnstown
Hershey
State College
Bedford
Carlisle
Mercer
Indiana
DuBois
Breezewood

There are many other great places in PA that I haven’t mentioned.

Bryce | 7/28/2006 10:26 AM CDT | #67631


Kim (and others),

You gotta try out

[url=http://www.findyourspot.com]http://www.findyourspot.com[/url]
and
[url=http://www.bestplaces.net/fybp/]http://www.bestplaces.net/fybp/[/url]

Both ask a lot of various types of questions.  And (for me) came up with a lot of places I’d never thought of.

Probably run by realtors (I think), so you’ll be asked for contact info (at least they did when I tried it quite a while ago).

While they don’t (didn’t) ask about CCW and homeschooling, findyourspot.com did at least have a slot for rating attractiveness of NRA.

CA_spj | 7/28/2006 10:42 AM CDT | #67633


Haven’t been there in a few years, but always considered Reno as a place to end up.  Four seasons, but pretty mild in all categories.

Bob K | 7/28/2006 10:43 AM CDT | #67634


kinda funny.  that findyourspot.com told me to live exactly where I am living.  heh.

SayUncle | 7/28/2006 11:00 AM CDT | #67639


Kim - If you ever want to check out KY, you and yours are always welcome to stop by our place (we’re in south-central KY, just over the TN border.) My wife and I live on several hundred acres - and yeah, we can pretty much shoot off the back porch if we want.

We’ve lived in KY for three years with no complaints, but we live in the middle of nowhere, so I don’t think I can address your cultural preferences.  Lexington and Louisville would probably do it for ‘ya.  We have 4 distinct seasons in KY.  Hunting galore.  KY is open-carry and definitely gun-friendly.  Need I mention the bourbon and horse racing?

alpineman | 7/28/2006 11:03 AM CDT | #67643


Some places in NC do have decent winters, Asheville for instance. No Nordstrom, although I think there’s Eddie Bauer and Dillards. It may be a little too “bohemian” for you in some areas. Like TX there will be an occasional Confederate flag license plate.

t7-nc | 7/28/2006 11:08 AM CDT | #67644


What Jon siad about Traverse City & Petoskey. Plus, TC especially is getting awfully pinko-liberal, plus, property prices are way out of line with the rest of the state. You might consider going just a bit south, into Benzie County, and a good sample town would be Frankfort. Good everything, house prices very tolerable and you’re still a reasonable drive from the good shopping/dining scene in TC.

Ludington/Pentwater are also very attractive.

Not quite sure why Governor Granholm is coming in for so much abuse. Sure, she’s a Democrat, but she’s done a not-bad job with the state budget (a right royal mess if ever there was) and she’s always going to be stuck with the realities of Michigan, which is actually 2 states - Wayne County, and Outstate - which can be 700 miles away.

CPL- holders (shall-issue state) are exempt from the purchase-permit requirement. The registration thing is troubling, to be sure, but it could be worse. The castle doctrine just went into law. Altogether, not too bad.

llater,

llamas

llamas | 7/28/2006 11:10 AM CDT | #67645


I grew up in Traverse City. It’s too crowded for my tastes now, especially during the great annual fudgie invasion, and I’m living 60 miles to the northeast. It would be a perfect place to live if only so many of our gun laws and other laws weren’t written in the People’s Republic of de Troit…

markm | 7/28/2006 11:16 AM CDT | #67646


Melody - re Flagstaff,

I’m doing the research to move out of state. I’m in CA, close to LA. Just how freakin’ bad could Flagstaff be?

anotherKevin | 7/28/2006 11:25 AM CDT | #67648


Kim,
we’d love to have you up here in NH. It’s still the conservative beacon of New England and having you up here would be one more person voting in the ‘sane’ column.

Please do come, should you move. Hell, I’ll even help you move in.

dfenstrate | 7/28/2006 11:39 AM CDT | #67649


Kim,
I have lived close to two of your “close” cities. I grew up just south of St. Louis, MO (south of Hannibal), and just west of Portsmouth, NH. I highly recommend both areas. But I would also recommend where I live now...Suffolk, VA. We are about 45 minutes west of the sand in Virginia Beach, 20 minutes away from 3 decent sized mall for The Mrs., within 20 minutes of several gun ranges (Norfolk county Rifle Range, Bob’s Guns Indoor Range, A&P;Arms, and others), good fishing & hunting, some snow in the winter, great scenery, taxes aren’t too bad (relatively speaking) but could be better. But my two favorite reasons for living here (aside from my kids )...Virginia ham and Carolina Bar-B-Q !

Apeman | 7/28/2006 11:39 AM CDT | #67650


Yes, come to NH.  Visit Portsmouth, but don’t live there, or indeed anywhere on our seacoast if you’re concerned about left leaning neighbors.  Strafford or Belknap counties are close enough to what you want and still small enough to have a place where you can shoot woodchucks from your front porch without disturbance.  Rockingham county is too much like Massachusetts.  Merrimack and Hillsborough are OK.  Cheshire and Sullivan involve more driving than you have indicated you will tolerate.  Grafton, Carroll and Coos (pronounced COE-oss) are up in the mountains and woods.  Aside from the resorts, much of it is a few decades behind the rest of the state.  Visit first.  I’ll show you around a bit.

lenf | 7/28/2006 11:42 AM CDT | #67651


Oh, forgot about the housing. Our house just appraised at $243,000 for our 4br, 2-1/2ba, 2-story, 2-car garage, in a cul-de-sac. No pool yet, but my wife is trying to talk me into it. As far as the weather goes, summers get pretty hot (but you can always go to the beach), spring and fall are perfect, winter gets a little cold (enough for snow once or twice a season). Plus, North Carolina is a good natural barrier for hurricanes (most of the time).

Good luck in the search.

Apeman | 7/28/2006 11:45 AM CDT | #67652


I must agree that Minnesota is a great place.  If you stay out Minneapolis, St. Paul, and to a lesser degree Winona and St. Cloud, you’ll find a conservative, well-educated and prosperous populace.

I don’t know if I’d want to live anywhere else.

Habs | 7/28/2006 11:49 AM CDT | #67653


Wow, keep ‘em coming.  I’m in the process of making the same decision as Kim, using the same core criteria.
Adding “good skiing” of course simplifies the list for me.

A word about Virginia: Northern VA is turning blue, due to the pernicious influence of Uncle Sugar and all of his minions and consultants.
The rest of the Commonwealth, while conservative, tends toward the oppressive Religious Right variety.  Wages, cost of living are both lower in the rural/small-town areas.  Roanoke, Blacksburg both great locations.  If it weren’t for the lack of a real winter, and of educated single women over age 25, I’d have settled in either place.

Outside of Philly/Harrisburg/Pittsburgh/State College, Pennsylvania is presently quite red.  Comments above about the Dems apply...old-school union guys.  Military service is honored on both sides of the aisle.  Drive a few miles outside of Harrisburg, Pitt, or State College, and you’re in red country again.  Land is also pretty cheap in the western PA areas remote from the above-listed cities, and away from the I-70 and I-83 corridors into Maryland.  Much of the mountainous areas are quite depressed economically.

NC: Asheville is a great place, despite the hippies.  Amazing array of restaurants, winter for sure, great scenery.  Duke, UNC, and the research/medical industry are what makes the Triangle appear liberal.  They’re not THAT close to taking over the place.

Gino | 7/28/2006 11:53 AM CDT | #67655


Man, not all of Texas is so obviously flat and boring!  Once you start moving west of Houston, I’ll agree, but the piney woods north of I-10 (from Houston east to the border) all the way to I-20 are slightly rolling (we’re talking slightly, but it’s still not like South LA or Dallas.  You can use Houston or Shreveport as a plane base (all the Shreveport will run through Dallas anyway).  It’s still hot, but with a whole hell of a lot more tree coverage, which makes it imminently more palatable.  I’m already designing my tornado proof retirement home circa 2046 in my head in that area

LSU Nonleg | 7/28/2006 11:57 AM CDT | #67656


Kim,

Given your criteria, you might take another look at Wyoming.  No state income tax and a very low cost of living.  While parts of it are truly remote, not all of it is. 

If I could manage it, I’d live in Cheyenne.  Nice thing about Cheyenne is that while it’s the biggest city in the state, at just over 60,000 people (yes, sixty thousand.  I didn’t leave a zero out!) it is close enough to Fort Collins and other cities of Northern Colorado to take advantage of the economic/cultural amenities, without suffering the ills associated with them Most criminals are too lazy to come 45 miles North, and can’t stand the harsh winters.  Plus in Wyoming the only reason it’s illegal to shoot liberals is because they’re an endangered species.  Cost of living/housing/gas is much lower than in Colorado, and in many counties, deer, elk and antelope tags are sold over the counter to residents. 

Another place I fell in love with was Cody (home of the Cody Firearms Museum at the Buffalo Bill Historic center!) Probably too remote for your better half, but Billings, MT, is about an hour away.  And calling that part of the state “gorgeous” is a gross understatement:  It’s on the Eastern edge of Yellowstone NP.  Sheridan, at the foot of the Bighorn Mountains, is also about an hour from Billings. 

A final place to consider might be Evanston, on the Southwestern border with Utah.  While Evanston itself isn’t much in terms of cultural amenities, the SLC metro area is, again, less than an hour away.

Staff Martin | 7/28/2006 12:00 PM CDT | #67658


I’ll add my voice for East Tennessee.  If I ever leave East Texas, that’s where I am going.  The mountains are beautiful and winters are real.  The place is still conservative enough that the Ten Commandments are still on the outside of the courhouse in downtown Johnson City.

John in Longview | 7/28/2006 12:01 PM CDT | #67659


I live in Richmond Virginia, and can recommend it and Roanoke Virginia as very liveable under your criteria.

dick | 7/28/2006 12:10 PM CDT | #67661


I don’t think Iowa is flat, at least not where I live, you just can’t see over the corn to be able to tell.

RipRip | 7/28/2006 12:28 PM CDT | #67663


The problem with NH, at least according to some people, is that it’s turning blue as more and more people from Massachusetts and other states move there. It won’t be too long before there is a state income tax and “common sense” gun laws.

Texas is looking better and better as a post retirement relocation candidate.

Gary

Garys | 7/28/2006 12:47 PM CDT | #67665


I’ll add another vote for Cheyenne.

All of the political advantages of Wyoming, a larger small town, and close enough to drive to the Colorado population areas.

Wyoming has the lowest individual tax burden, period. Most of their operating funds come from severence taxes levied on oil production ... in fact, they need to abolish their sales tax. I feel it gives the state government too much money to play with.

I am a bit biased ... I am a part of the Free State Wyoming group.

Here is the Wyoming Liberty index we have compiled.

And here is our forum section where we tout Wyoming...

kbarrett | 7/28/2006 12:56 PM CDT | #67667


California would be an awesome place to live, if we got rid of the libtards and cleaned up all the weapons and business unfriendly laws.  However, it seems that we keep absorbing more and more from all the other states and it just keeps getting worse and worse.

UGH!

308Mike | 7/28/2006 12:57 PM CDT | #67668


Kim:

My wife and son and I moved back from Virginia to Georgia recently.  We’ve been there for several years (I was working on a contract to DOD).  I think you would like it quite a bit:  it meets your qualifications.  It has some of the best gun laws in the nation (the Virginia Citizens’ Defense League does great work), and places that are Red-State friendly but with plenty of high culture.

A town you might consider is Warrenton, VA.  I enjoyed my time there.  Tony Wilcox, who runs an antique firearms business just off main street, is a man after your own heart.  Clarks Brothers down the road has a free firearms range where you can take people to shoot (provided only you buy your ammo and targets from them).  There’s plenty of cultural events, and Tech Support will find whatever shopping she desires in the area.  Winter is snowy, and summer is warm, and the spring and fall are very nice.

Alteratively, you may wish to be farther from DC.  Lexington, VA, is a very nice place also—home of VMI and Washington & Lee—and not too far from Roanoke, which has already been mentioned.

Grim | 7/28/2006 01:01 PM CDT | #67669


Uh, 308 - California would be greatly improved if it simply had 75% of it’s current population. Last fall, I tried taking my kids to the pumpkin patch. After a long wait to get into the parking lot, we discovered it was completely full, and had a long wait to get out again. In the meantime I watched the pumpkin patch. Standing room only.

anotherKevin | 7/28/2006 01:05 PM CDT | #67671


Here are some of my requirements, hidden in the no heat and gotta be near a Nordstroms (which I never actually shop it, it is what it attracts nearby), within 45 minutes:

1.  Restaurants:  Indian (at least 2 or 3 in vegetarian and tandoori), Greek (at least three, coz one always sucks, and one has to be really nice), Middle Eastern (Turkish, etc), Chinese (Mandarin and Hunan--not Cantonese), Northern Italian (no red sauce crap, ie, Pizza), Thai, Vietnamese, German (the real thing), Spanish (and they better have a paella to die for) French (Provençal and café), new age restaurants including haute cuisine, European grill, as well as cool diner type places with interesting homemade home-food and PIE.  If the restaurant serves rolled ham, pressed turkey, canned gravy, instant mashed potatoes, or is a chain, it doesn’t count as a restaurant.

If there is no real French (or Viennese) bakery (made on the premises, not that frozen crap with the canned “custard"), forgettaboutit.

2.  Pubs, cabarets, and hotels.

3. Grocery stores:  Ethnic markets (Indian, European, Asian, etc), gourmet items or a large gourmet grocery chain/store, and exotic health foods (ie, Mrs. Gooch or Whole Foods style).

When the above are present, the other stores seem to follow (interesting book, clothing, art, music, and gift shops)--not chain stores.

The above is what I love.  We don’t eat out for normal food.  I cook that at home.  I don’t want mail order gourmet food. I want incredibly fresh and interesting produce.  If the grocery store doesn’t sell endive, fresh ginger, fresh herbs, a variety of potatoes and onions and lettuces, it is not interesting to me.

No place that has fire ants or rattlesnakes.  I want to be able to walk on grass, not just look at it.

Connie du Toit | 7/28/2006 01:08 PM CDT | #67672


The find your spot website, come up with:

*Minneapolis-St Paul, Minnesota
Denver, Colorado (no way, the earth moves)
Cleveland, Ohio (uhh… no, I said I wanted a place that was open late)
Columbus, Ohio
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Detroit, Michigan (puhleeze)
Carlisle, Pennsylvania (been there, absolutely hated it.  I hated it so much it makes me question that validity of the entire survey)
Des Moines, Iowa
Toledo, Ohio
Omaha, Nebraska
Indianapolis, Indiana
*Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Long Island, New York (when pigs fly)
Salt Lake City, Utah
Kansas City, Missouri
*Nashua, New Hampshire
*Lexington, Kentucky (I haven’t spent much time there, but thought it was really pretty)
*Manchester, New Hampshire
*Portland, Maine
*Knoxville, Tennessee
*Ann Arbor, Michigan
St. Louis, Missouri (uh, no)
Altoona, Pennsylvania
Erie, Pennsylvania

*Maybe

Connie du Toit | 7/28/2006 01:24 PM CDT | #67674


See? We’re not picky at all.

Kim du Toit | 7/28/2006 01:25 PM CDT | #67675


pbbbbbtttttttt

I told you that before you married me.

Connie du Toit | 7/28/2006 01:28 PM CDT | #67676


I will third PA, specifically, the Pocono’s - For $250K you’ll get a nice house. NYC, and all the shopping Tech Support could want is two hours away, in addition to local shopping. Green doesn’t adequately describe the place. Winter can be cold with ALOT of snow - it is, after all in the Mountains. Fishing and Hunting abound - Deer Hunting isn’t a religion, its a cult! There’s a 1000 yard range in Williamsport, a Cabela’s in Hamburg, and oh, since this is a big weekend getaway destination, you get alot of restaurants and shops you normally wouldn’t see at this population density. And oh yeah, gunshows. PA has probably the best gunshows in the Northeast, and one of the best in the country - The Harrisburg show, for example is 1200 tables.

Real Estate agents for the Pocono’s:
Gold Realty
David R Chant

HTRN | 7/28/2006 01:39 PM CDT | #67678


Kim, Kentucky has a state income tax.
I hate to contradict sayuncle, but TN does not have CCW. We have carry permits. One is not required to conceal the weapon (although I choose to).
And we have just a bit more winter than I care for, by about 2 months.

Tennessee Budd | 7/28/2006 01:39 PM CDT | #67679


Re: Flagstaff

It’s a college town, so there’s going to be a certain amount of Moonbattery.  But as moonbats go, the Flagstaff variety is fairly tolerable. 

But before you consider moving there, I strongly suggest you stay there for an extended period of time, at least 30 days.  Why?  Altitude.  It’s 7000 feet up, and the air is noticably thinner because of it.  It takes about a month to find out if you can adapt or not.

MossbackGator | 7/28/2006 01:42 PM CDT | #67680


Can’t be as bad as Austin for Moonbats, Moss.  Every time I go there I remember why I hate it.

Connie du Toit | 7/28/2006 01:45 PM CDT | #67681


That Nordstroms requirement is a serious limit ...

Their website has a store locator ... closest one to Cheyenne is in Denver.

Oh well.....

kbarrett | 7/28/2006 01:50 PM CDT | #67683


Denver-the earth moves?  Huh?  No major quake zone around that I know of.  Denver’s a lib town though, and their home rule firearms laws are much more strict than the rest of the state.

Darrell | 7/28/2006 02:03 PM CDT | #67686


It isn’t Nordstroms, per se, K.  It is that Nordstroms means there are wealthy, traveled, and successful people in the area.  If the only shopping districts are JC Penny and Sears, these are not wealthy and successful people, in numbers sufficient to attract a store like that.  Everything that caters to wealthy and traveled people will be missing.  There won’t be art theatres, interesting architecture, furniture stores (besides gawd awful Levitz or Barcaloungers), or any of the fun places and restaurants that are interesting and different.  There won’t be any all night coffee shops, interesting clubs, or galleries that sell something besides LeeRoy Neiman.  In other words, there wouldn’t be a single thing to do that I would like.

I don’t really buy very much (now, practically nothing).  But I love to window shop, go for long city walks, sit in a cafe and drink a nice cup of coffee (NOT STARBUCKS) and people watch, with a homemade pastry (not muffins).  I love running out to get exotic take home food, or spending time in ethnic grocery stores.  I want to see art films and have DVD stores that sell something besides block buster hits that have huge foreign language sections.  That’s all that I do really.  Without those things, I might as well be crippled and blind, never leaving my house or finding pleasure or joy in a single thing ever again.  I need city lights and signs of industry.  It’s what I live for.  These aren’t just “maybes” for me.  They define what life means.  They define who I am.

Connie du Toit | 7/28/2006 02:06 PM CDT | #67687


Mossback,

I grew up in Johannesburg (alt. 6,000 ft). I long for high altitudes, because that means no humidity.

Kim du Toit | 7/28/2006 02:17 PM CDT | #67688


East Tn is truly God’s country from my standpoint.

There are mountains, lakes and rivers in every direction.

Guns, camo and four-wheel drive are a way of life.

The cost of living is reasonable.

There is a good bit of southern gentility and civility. If you don’t believe me, make a lewd comment to a female at a gun store or in a gun store and see what happens.

We have 4 distinct seasons, for better or worse.

The Republican primary usually decides the election.

We have respectable music and theatre.

There is a negligible crime rate.

For every clown who fancies himself as a gang-banger, there are a dozen of us heavily armed rednecks whom he should fear.

There are about 12 good guns shows per year, plus quite a few ranges and gun stores.

The biggest problem with hippies comes from a fair amount of college professors, but their numbers are not material. Every now and then one of them will handcuff himself to the fence of a nuclear reactor, which is mildly entertaining.

I am certainly not moving.

molonlabe28 | 7/28/2006 02:23 PM CDT | #67689


Never fear, we’ll fix MI. 

I hope.

ScottS | 7/28/2006 02:30 PM CDT | #67691


Fixing MI would be a lovely thing.  I grew up in Grand Rapids, spent my summers on a lake (or THE lake), and love Traverse City area (minus the heart of blistery winters: no thanks).

What about Grand Junction, CO?

carbinero | 7/28/2006 02:37 PM CDT | #67693


And this is why we’ll probably never move, unless we win the lottery and spend the rest of our lives traveling and living in hotels, with little more than a lodge, where Kim can return to visit his guns (while I wait at the nearest hotel in city, having a facial).

Connie du Toit | 7/28/2006 02:47 PM CDT | #67694


are you out of yer f’n mind!!!!???  Traverse City and Petosky are “ann arbor of the north” how long has it been since you were there?  I do agree that it’s nice country but a little too leftist fer me.  The UP is nice but is remote.  The nearest shopping place is appleton wisconsin, which means disarming at the border.

redneckdan | 7/28/2006 03:01 PM CDT | #67695


are you out of yer f’n mind!!!!???  Traverse City and Petosky are “ann arbor of the north” how long has it been since you were there?  I do agree that it’s nice country but a little too leftist fer me.  The UP is nice but is remote.  The nearest shopping place is appleton wisconsin, which means disarming at the border.

redneckdan | 7/28/2006 03:01 PM CDT | #67696


Don’t quite get the comment about the earth moving in Denver.  The nearest major fault is the San Andreas, and while we’ve had some minor earthquakes, the only time I ever know about it is when I read it in the paper.  Climate-wise we are just about perfect:  No hurricanes, very few tornadoes (they stay out on the Eastern plains), one major blizzard every 5-7 years and relatively mild winters otherwise, a vibrant economy and an outdoor playground that is probably one of the best on earth, if not the best. 

Actually, as much as I plug Wyoming, Colorado needs you more.  The reason is because the liberals have targeted Colorado as a Western state with a very large urban/suburban and very small rural population, which means they can make the ‘tail wag the dog’ (as in Nevada) so as to make it a “blue” state (as has already happened with New Mexico.) My hope is that freedom-loving refugees from California and Washington will make their homes here to keep the liberal population from gaining a political foothold.  We really are on the brink here.

Staff Martin | 7/28/2006 03:09 PM CDT | #67697


To me, Redneck, Traverse City is booniesville.  The only thing it has going for it is its proximity to Chicago (and an airport to fly to Chicago).  Recalibrate that Traverse City is the smallest town I’d live in (actually, to be truthful, I wouldn’t live there--way too small) and see what you’re left with.

I LIKE crowds.  I LIKE traffic.  I LOVE traffic noise at night.

Oh, for a city of 5 million people (with snow) that didn’t ban guns.

The most ideal situation would be to live in an apartment in Chicago, with Kim being able to shoot targets on Lake Michigan, walking through Lincoln Park carrying his rifles.  That would be heaven.

Connie du Toit | 7/28/2006 03:09 PM CDT | #67698


Ashland, VA. Close enough to Richmond, but far enough out to get sizeable property.

Draven | 7/28/2006 03:29 PM CDT | #67702


Geez, I knew this would get a response, but MAN!

Okay, you guys are snowbirds, you just haven’t figured it out yet. 

You buy the motorhome and you move wherever you want to be at the moment.

Any place that has a Nordstroms must be some fruity Austin-in-waiting, so you can’t find what you want in one place.  So don’t try!

A lot of the good places went out with the fire ants and rattlesnakes.  Sorry, Idaho and Colorado.

Except for the part I live in, I think TN has a lot to offer you.  Personally I kinda liked the central/southern KY idea-- you’re not far from Nashville, and I bet they have a Nordstroms.  I know there are conservative bastions around it in TN, too, but I’m afraid it’s going in the wrong direction.  And unfortunately for East TN, the state in general is following.

Idahoser | 7/28/2006 04:14 PM CDT | #67705


If you think that Fort Collins, Colorado, is too “pink” because it has a university, remember that Colorado State University is a land-grant school and still pretty much a feet-on-the-ground place. Why, it even has an ROTC program.

And my cousin, who served with Special Forces in Afghanistan, was recently elected to the city council. You could vote for him: http://fcgov.com/council/dbrown.php

Plus Wyoming is just a short drive away, if you want more wideopen spaces.

Chas Clifton | 7/28/2006 04:19 PM CDT | #67706


Here’s some info for Montana and Idaho (I live in Boise Idaho atm)

State Taxes
Montana
Idaho

Homeschooling Details (Both are Homeschool Friendly)
Montana
Idaho

In fact if you Contact the owner of “KT Ordinance” Richard Celata (Dillon Montana) I believe he and his wife homeschool thier kids.

Low cost of living
Both Idaho and Montana have a similar cost of living to Plano TX in general (a little lower though), there are a few expensive areas (in local terms), but there are Far more low cost areas.

High standard of living
I don’t know about Montana Much but here in Boise we have that in spades, we have excellent Restaurant’s downtown and spread through the city, We have Plenty of Shopping (a little spread out but a LOT of Good Shops [EG: Several good Gun Stores, Sportsman’s Warehouse and our Cabelas is Opening soon]) with quite low prices (No Nordstrom’s here but plenty of other great stores), our traffic is Very Low by city Standards, and our Crime is very low with the majority (which isn’t much) centering around banks and gas stations in the crap end of town, In spite of that you can feel perfectly safe taking a nice walk after dark, even downtown!

Conservative politics
Both Idaho and Montana are more Conservative than you could ask for, both have Republican State Governments (Not RINO’s or NEOCON’s Either) both would welcome Real-Estate Agents who have a Blog Like Yours, the Only Racial Isues we have here in Idaho is they hate Egg Sucking Liberals with a Passion and I believe that Montana is the same if not more Un-Tolerant of Liberals.

No stupid gun laws
None in Idaho, and Even less Restrictions in Montana, and Both have the Castle Doctrine in the works to my knowledge, and both have Full Texas CCW Reciprocity

Scenery
Both Idaho and Montana Have more sceenery within a day’s drive than you could want, Here in Boise we have the Nearby “Sawtooth Mountains” (45 min or less drive) with several lakes and a 2-3 hour drive to the south we have our own “Grand Canyon” (Deeper, Longer, Almost as wide), about a 2 hour drive to the north we have one of the most sought after ski resorts near Mcall “Tamarack Ski Resort” as well as we have 3 other Ski resorts within a 30 min to 1 hour drive from boise, Boise is only about a 2 hour drive from oregon, a 3 hour drive from Utah, and a 5-6 hour drive from, Nevada wyoming and Montana, and not much further from colorado, Plus you can go shooting on Any BLM Land in the State without any problems.

Boise Idaho where I Live is somewhat in-between for property/House prices, but if you live outside of town (3-5 miles) your property taxes are about 1/4 or less than what they are in town (Except for Hidden Springs which is a Commiefornian elitist community), personally I would recommend Eagle if you want to live in town have low housing costs and be a stone’s throw from a small city, Both Eagle and Boise though are Considerably Cooler than Plano is which you should enjoy as we get a good Balanced Summer & Winter, It is incredibly rare for it to get much hotter than 100F in the summer (Only gets that hot during the odd short heat-wave), we get nice thunderstorms usually Every 3 weeks in the Spring, Summer & early Fall, and it only gets down to the mid-low 30’s in the winter