Hole In The Safe

March 16, 2006
8:08 AM CST

One of the things that has bothered me most since the Great Gun Sell-Off Of 2005 is that I no longer have a super-accurate scoped .22 rifle, having sold the Marlin 880SQ to Chris. This is not a hint, by the way: I know it’s found a good home, and what’s done is done.

And yet, and yet…

I miss having a really accurate .22 rifle. I can always borrow the Son&Heir’s Marlin 81T (which is more accurate than I can shoot it), but I kinda miss having a bull-barrel rifle, through which I can test different ammo brands and types, and pretty much drop bullets into the same hole all day long. It also helps to have a scope for any kind of serious testing, because my right eye is still a little astigmatic (a condition not fully fixed by Lasik surgery), and I get some “clouding” around the front sight of a rifle. The scope pretty much takes care of that. (Also, I wouldn’t need to buy a scope: I have just about anything I want mounted on other rifles, and could just move one over, once I decided which one would work the best.)

I do not miss the 880SQ’s compo stock. Long-time Readers will be familiar with my aversion to Things Artificial, and if rifles had been meant to rest on plastic stocks, then John Moses Browning would have specified as such. But he didn’t; and anyway, I don’t want to go off on a tangent here:

I want a wooden-stocked, 20” or 21” bull-barreled, scoped, bolt-action .22 LR rifle.

There are essentially two serious choices, and two outrageous ones. (Serious: they don’t involve a huge amount of money; outrageous: they’re far more expensive than the other two, as you will see.)

1. Savage Mark II BV: $230.

I love Savage rifles, and all the more now that they almost all have the wonderful adjustable AccuTrigger. This rifle is unquestionably more accurate than 99.999% of the people who will ever shoot it, and I’m most definitely in that percentage.

2. CZ 453 Varmint: $460.

Of all the rifles I’m looking at today, this is the one which gives me the greatest itch. Here’s why. It costs twice as much as the Savage, and I seriously doubt whether it’s twice as accurate. But it is a CZ, and it does have that wonderful “set” trigger (whereby pushing the trigger forward before shooting gives it a trigger pull of about 10oz). Of course, if I want a 10oz trigger on the Savage, I could just set it so—but not on the fly, like I could the CZ.

3. Kimber SVT: $750.

Forget it. Too ugly, and too expensive. I’m sure it’s a wonderful rifle and accurate and can shoot a bee’s nuts off at 1,000 yards etc etc, but I ain’t gonna do it. Plus it has an 18” fluted barrel, not a bull barrel.

4. Remington Mod 504-T: $850.

This is the Rolls-Royce of the lot, with a tight Eley Match chamber, and the heaviest barrel of all. Key question: Would it be over three times more accurate than the Savage? Answer: Of course not, especially with Yours Truly at the trigger. If I were thirty years younger, and about to embark on some serious competition shooting, I’d rob a bank and get this one. As it is… no thanks.

Notable omissions:

1.) The Ruger Mod 77/22 VT has a 24” heavy barrel. Too long, too heavy, and, at $600, too expensive.

2.) Marlin appears to have dropped all their .22 LR bolt-action bull-barrel rifles, which is a shame.

Comments

Bottom of Comments | Original Post

I love my Kimber SVT, and so does everyone who shoots it. Trigger breaks like a very thin glass rod. It is a heavy sucker, though. It was the best choice at the time.

Today I’d get the Savage. If I ever go really serious about match shooting, then I’d move up.

Author ID: 82 | 3/16/2006 08:19 AM CST | #59672


What’s wrong with fluted barrels? If they manufacture the barrel to the same actual weight, fluted barrels are more rigid and cool better.

I wish they made a 453 Lux.

Author ID: 2120 | 3/16/2006 08:42 AM CST | #59676


Do you know how much .22 LR it takes to heat up a bull barrel to the point the flutes make a difference?  I don’t think you can do it with a bolt-gun.  On a .223 gopher getter, the flutes make sense (more surface area = greater heat dissipation).  On a .22, they’re a waste of time and money.

Do .22 LR bull barrels deflect?  I know that it’s possible, but if you rest the rifle on the forearm it shouldn’t be an issue.

I think our host just doesn’t like the look of flutes.  It’s kind of like his disdain for composite stocks.

Author ID: 1906 | 3/16/2006 08:48 AM CST | #59677


Used Winchester Model 52?  Wood, classy, and old...ought to be up your alley.
Mine’s a ~1” diam. bull barrel, benchrest stock, adjustable (currently HAIR) trigger, 10x target scope.
Dad used to regularly win turkey/ham shoots against Anchutz’s with it...and if he didn’t win, somebody else would, by borrowing his M52.  Off the bench, the gun will light strike-anywhere matches at 50 yards on a windless day.
If you can find one used, go for it...Blue Book varies from $500-$900 from what I recall.  I love the thing...puts a S.E. grin on my face every time I take it to the range.
Better, get the 52 sporter (slimmer stock)...but prepare to pay.  That’s the ultimate squirrel rifle.

Author ID: 6572 | 3/16/2006 08:51 AM CST | #59679


True, that. I actually prefer the look of a fluted barrel, and for most of my concepts, the front ends are designed to give lots of space for air to move around the barrels—so a wider barrel diameter, trading compactness for performance, is just fine.

Author ID: 2120 | 3/16/2006 08:52 AM CST | #59680


Actually, if you can find one, the discontinued Sako 72/78 models are pretty nice and have great triggers, though $60 apiece for replacement 5-shot magazines seems awfully steep, and that is assuming the guy in Wichita still has some.  I can’t remember the going rate for this model, but it’s not at all bad, especially for a Sako.

Author ID: 7671 | 3/16/2006 09:01 AM CST | #59683


Errrr Stiletto, please explain to me how removing material from a tube makes it more rigid, instead of weakening it?

Adding material to create the flutes would strengthen the barrel—but fluting a barrel to strengthen it defies physics.

I don’t have much against fluted barrels, but I think they’re just added and unnecessary workmanship (and therefore expense) on a .22 LR, especially a bolt-action rimfire.

0 Author ID: 1 | 3/16/2006 09:02 AM CST | #59684


Kim: take 1lb bull barrel and compare to a 1lb fluted barrel. The fluted barrel will be wider and have more surface area, for the same amount of material. The fluted barrel will be stronger.

Now if you start out with the 1lb bull barrel and cut flutes in it, you’re an idiot and whatever gunsmith sold you on it should be flogged as a fraud. But that’s not what I’m talking about.

Author ID: 2120 | 3/16/2006 09:05 AM CST | #59686


Linky

Fluting as in moving your materials around = good.
Fluting as in deleting materials = bad.

Author ID: 2120 | 3/16/2006 09:06 AM CST | #59687


I gotta agree on the overall spiffiness of Savage .22 rifles.  I’ve got a 1930’s vintage Savage NRA Match rifle, and even with non-match ammo manage to regularly embarrass my shooting buddies, both with scoped rifles.

Don’t get me started on magazine prices, though.  It was a single-shot rifle for years until I finally found a mag… which cost as much as a couple of bricks of ammo!

Author ID: 7611 | 3/16/2006 09:29 AM CST | #59690


Point taken, but it should be noted that most barrel makers do not order a thicker tube—they flute a “regular” bull barrel.

And I repeat: fluting a .22 LR barrel makes little or no sense to me. The heat generated by the little rimfire igniting is not that great, even after a hundred consecutive rounds.

It’s just added expense, for little utility.

0 Author ID: 1 | 3/16/2006 09:30 AM CST | #59691


Well, yeah. I just like how they look.

Author ID: 2120 | 3/16/2006 09:32 AM CST | #59692


Well, that Savage looks like it might work for my ongoing program to subvert my family’s youth by teaching that guns don’t contain evil spirits, nor are they self-animating.  If I do, it’ll be my only boltie.  In fact, I think I’ll put it on my list after the Henry lever .22.  Being a southpaw friends don’t let friends shoot backwards rifles.

Author ID: 6681 | 3/16/2006 09:50 AM CST | #59694


Hmmm, I’d be torn between the Savage and the CZ.
The Savage for bang for the buck but the CZ for the convenience of the trigger and the fact that it lloks like it would duplicate the “feel” of a larger caliber rifle.  Notice the placement of the bolt handle on the CZ vs. the Savage. 
I haven’t compared prices but the CZ’s in any caliber have a reputation of good bang for the buck as far as craftsmanship goes.
Fluting is something for male homosexuals according to the jokes I’ve heard.

Author ID: 67 | 3/16/2006 10:11 AM CST | #59699


The CZ has a good sleek look to my eyes.  The wood on the Remington looks better, but that’s a lot of money for a .22.  After you scope it, you’ll be at a Grand.
If I wanted cheap, there are lots of other cheap options.  But were I to be spoiling my self, I’d make sure I got the rifle that I really wanted.  The Savage is probably a fine rifle, but I’d get the CZ.

Author ID: 7644 | 3/16/2006 10:28 AM CST | #59700


If a bolt action is not a requirement, you can get a really nice used martini without iron sights and ready to be scoped for between 300 and 500 from Thad Scott Fine Guns. Price seems to depend on the wood quality. Get one with the old style scope bases already installed. They are real shooters.

Author ID: 7674 | 3/16/2006 10:35 AM CST | #59701


Great post (as usual), thanks.

Kim, do any of the rifles you mention also come with provision for iron sights, or at least for adding a diopter and tunnel set? I am lusting after the CZ 453, but I can’t afford the arm and a scope for it at the same time. I am thinking about calling CZ in Ohersky Brod, and asking if they would make me one with iron sights.... Any thoughts?

Author ID: 882 | 3/16/2006 10:41 AM CST | #59703


The link below is to an auction of a Winchester 75, currently selling at $400.00. I have one of these, and would not take $400.00 and a Kimber SVT in trade for it. Good looking traditional bolt action rifle. I use it for practice in 3 position small bore. The heft and sighting transfer directly to shooting in the Garand matches.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7302839&aa;= Winchester (Pre 64) MODEL 75 .22LR HEAVY BLL. TARGET RIFLE

Author ID: 1632 | 3/16/2006 10:46 AM CST | #59704


Denis, few if any bull-barreled rifles come with iron sights, except of course the Savage Mark I-FVT, which may be exactly what you’re looking for.

0 Author ID: 1 | 3/16/2006 10:54 AM CST | #59706


To remind everyone of the brief:

Don’t want a single-shot rifle. Bolt-action repeater with bull barrel. Iron sights nice, but not essential as I’m going to scope it anyway. Wooden stock. Adjustable trigger.

0 Author ID: 1 | 3/16/2006 10:57 AM CST | #59707


Kim, thanks, the Savage Mark I-FVT has exactly what I was thinking of - peep sights. However, a gunsmith “somewhere seekrit” is (I hope) already putting together a rather interesting single-shot .22 rifle for me. (I’ll say more about that when the time is ripe...) Does anybody make a rifle like the Mark I-FVT, but as a repeater, or could I put such a peep-sight setup on the CZ453 without too much hassle?

(Call me choosy...)

Author ID: 882 | 3/16/2006 11:49 AM CST | #59711


Brag Warning
I own a Remington 581 .22LR bolt-action rifle that I bought back in 1979. At the time it cost about $100, probably about equivalent to the cost of the Savage in today’s inflated currency.
I only shoot “standard velocity” ammo out of it. Basically this means .22LR loaded to a velocity less than the speed of sound.
Hard to believe, but I actually won a bet with a chap who did not know this little trick. Basically my humble 581 shot a better group than his very $ Anschutz, because I shot RWS target ammo with a subsonic velocity, and he shot CCI Mini Mags. To make matters worse, he was probably a better shot than me. I think he thought I had figured out a way to “cheat.”
He still bought lunch, which was what was being wagered in the bet.
I am also very fond of my Ruger 77/22. It’s not quite as accurate as the 581, but its features make it a better field rifle for small game.

Author ID: 7522 | 3/16/2006 11:51 AM CST | #59712


Ach, silly me. Savage makes the same rifle, but as a 5-shot repeater: the Mark II FVT. The price is right, too. Now to see if there are Savage dealers this side of the Big Pond…

Author ID: 882 | 3/16/2006 11:52 AM CST | #59713


Denis,

Sorry. For some reason, I thought you were looking for a single-shot rifle, or else I would have recommended the Mark II FVT instead.

0 Author ID: 1 | 3/16/2006 12:38 PM CST | #59717


You missed one hell of an accurate boltgun, and it’s a bargain.  The Izhmash Biathlon Basic, as imported by EAA.

The Savage may have potential, but the Accutrigger is a liability-lawyer’s offering to a public that doesn’t realize better triggers are out there - the kind that don’t require a silly-assed pre-trigger to be pulled, ala Glock and Sigma.  Not that they need the business from me, but http://www.riflebasix.com makes a dandy adjustable Savage trigger that replaces the Accutrigger abortion.  Even Remington wisened up and got rid of their J-Lock bolt shrouds, so Savage, make an adjustable trigger again, just like you did many years ago, one that doesn’t have a gay pre-trigger release lever.  Your bean-counters will enjoy increased sales from real shooters. 

Author ID: 7517 | 3/16/2006 12:56 PM CST | #59719


There are still a few fine match quality barrel makers out there, and occasionally you can find an excellent old action with a shot-out barrel. I see them at gunshows all the time. If you can find one, think about having someone like Lije or Harry McGowan put a fresh barrel on for you. Harry does match quality 22 barrels that are “bored straight”, (in other words, not “straightened” after boring, like many barrels are) and then rifled, OD turned, and cryoed, so the cold shot and hot shot go exactly the same place. These barrels are A MAZE ING. I’ve often thought about buying one of the old WInchester 52 D barreled actions (the ones with the shot out barrels for $185) and putting a McGowan barrel on it. After I finish my current four project rifles.

Author ID: 112 | 3/16/2006 01:10 PM CST | #59721


Gewehr,

Two issues:

1. The slam against Savage has always been their lousy triggers. “Fantastically accurate, but lousy trigger pull” was the verdict on Savage ever since I can remember. So they fixed it with a user-adjustable trigger (and at no additional cost), which makes their rifles the equal of rifles costing three- and four times as much. I don’t care about the lawyer crap: what I know is that the new Savage rifles can outshoot almost any other rifle on the planet which aren’t five times their cost. Speaking for myself, I would pit myself and a decent Savage against ANY rifleshooter, at any distance, in any competition for bolt-action rifles. I might not win, but I sure as hell wouldn’t disgrace myself, either.

2. Not everyone can afford to go to gunsmiths to have their triggers tuned—nor do they want to hand their new guns over and wait a couple/few weeks for the job to get done. And the better the gunsmith, the longer the wait.

Oh, and one more thing: check the pic size before posting—I had to delete the Baikal you posted because it blew up my screen.

Pic size for posting here: NO MORE THAN 400 PIXELS WIDE.

0 Author ID: 1 | 3/16/2006 01:29 PM CST | #59724


+1 for the Baikal - great bang for the buck AND a conversation piece with a heritage

Author ID: 1698 | 3/16/2006 03:11 PM CST | #59731


What a coinky-dink, I just bought a CZ 453 today. Id been staring at it in the Gun store I frequent for two months and I cant believe no one else bought it, the stock is incredibly figured and tiger striped.

Cant wait to shoot it.

Author ID: 6716 | 3/16/2006 03:26 PM CST | #59732


Oh, By the Way: Baikal rifles/parts will be spotty soon, as they have received a rather large military rifle contract. I’m still casting about trying to find that 45/70 double rifle, with not much luck, and I just discovered via the recent SHOT show that the reason for this is the new contract.

Author ID: 112 | 3/16/2006 03:36 PM CST | #59733


Might I put in a good word for a Mossy 144LS?  Or any of the older Mossberg .22s.  I’ve had several over the decades and all of them were better then I was…

Author ID: 7596 | 3/16/2006 04:53 PM CST | #59734


Tack driving .22’s - excellent!  You can shoot them all day for pennies!

Author ID: 2187 | 3/16/2006 06:34 PM CST | #59738


I’d get a Mossberg M44 from the CMP, and replace the front sight and get a magazine…

Total cost, about $330.

Author ID: 1913 | 3/17/2006 01:10 AM CST | #59748


Marlin 2000L

Sweet little tool, 22 inch floating bull barrel, guide rail, slide stop, magazine option so I can use it as a single shot or 5 shot. Laminated wood stock, Williams peep sights, Adjustable buttstock to increase the length of pull. (it’s a bit short fully collapsed)

I picked it up used for a couple hundred bucks a few years ago, they sold new for around 600-700. What a steal. Marlin discontinued them.

Shoots better than I do.

Worth looking around for a used one to try on. Dunno what they sell for now.

Author ID: 7683 | 3/17/2006 08:34 AM CST | #59760


May I quibble?  I share a similar, though far less pronounced, affection for wood over plastic.  However, since when is a laminated stock not artificial?  I’m sure you’ll agree: there’s just something about a solid slab of wood to warm the heart.  Maybe that’ll help narrow things down…

Author ID: 6571 | 3/17/2006 11:19 AM CST | #59786


My apologies for the oversized pic, I just linked the image from my website.  I’ll provide just the URL to the pic in the future.  I wanted folks to see the Baikal with toggle bolt, adjustable trigger, and it’s a hell of a bargain for a repeater bolt rimfire (mine was $269.00) as well as a hell of a tight shooter.

Regarding the Savage triggers, I’ll partially agree with you, but only from the date of your arrival on these shores, I’ve got at least a decade or so of lead time on American firearms over you.  I’ve a 1970’s vintage Savage 110 with a crisp, clean, 3-pound trigger - hence my rant on Savage returning to a decent adjustable trigger, sans Accutrigger and the pre-trigger lever.  I also have a pre-’64 Winchester Model 70 or two, and a late-60’s Browning BAR, with triggers that are nothing like what comes out of factories today.  Did I mention they’re the original triggers?  I’ve watched things degrade over the years, and it’s sad, with the Accu-trigger as icing on the cake. To borrow a phrase, “The pussification of American triggers is well underway”, and that’s too bad, because it’s one of the most important parts of an accurate rifle.

You started defending your rimfire shooting prowess.  You didn’t need to do that, I wasn’t attacking you, I was attacking the Accu-trigger.  I’m sure you know how to shoot, otherwise you wouldn’t be promulgating the Nation of Riflemen. I’m fully confident that if I handed you that Baikal Biathlon Basic above, you’d get 50-yard groups like this, too.

Regarding good clean triggers, they needn’t go and languish on a gunsmith’s bench for tuning or installation these days.  Those that are adjustable can be adjusted with hand tools and allen wrenches found at home.  Those that aren’t adjustable can be replaced on the kitchen table or garage workbench, then safety checked with a snap cap in the chamber.  They’ve gotten that modular, and that easy.  You just need to be ever-so-slightly mechanically inclined, willing to take an action out of a stock, and capable of following printed instructions. 

For those with the nice, older Savage adjustable triggers, here’s how they’re done.

Tomwright, kudos for mentioning the Marlin Model 2000.  Grab one if you can, the blue plastic stock was unusual, but the laminated version was very nice.  Make sure you can locate the repeater kit for it, too.

Now I have to take my Remington Model 521T to the range this afternoon.  Power of suggestion and all…

Author ID: 7517 | 3/17/2006 11:27 AM CST | #59787


Yah, the 2000L I have is the laminated stock. I never saw, or knew they made, one with a blue plastic stock. Sounds fugly.

I was just shopping for a .22 a few years ago and the guy at the shop had this one, barely used, from a guy that buys and tries guns like we do ammo.  A snapped it up before the other customer at the counter could drool on it and steal it from me. I was just in the right place at the right time.

I put more wear on it in a week than he did in less than a year. Haven’t shot it recently though. I need to move out of NJ before I start playing with guns again. Ranges are too few and restrictions are too oppressive in this state.

Author ID: 7683 | 3/17/2006 01:53 PM CST | #59807